00;00;00;00 - 00;00;22;23 Speaker 1 Hello, my name is David with the California Board of Accountancy. Welcome to another episode of the accounting for California podcast. Today's episode is extra special because not only are we bringing together the KBA and the California Society of CPAs, but we're also on video, so this is exciting. So I'm excited to be joined on the podcast today by the executive officer of the California Board of Accountancy, Dominic Franziska. 00;00;22;25 - 00;00;23;04 Speaker 1 Hello. 00;00;23;11 - 00;00;23;26 Speaker 2 Thank you. David. 00;00;23;29 - 00;00;28;04 Speaker 1 All right. And the president and CEO of Cal CPA, Denise Fleming. 00;00;28;10 - 00;00;29;16 Speaker 3 Thank you. David. All right. To be. 00;00;29;16 - 00;00;51;04 Speaker 1 Here. We're glad you're here. So the topic on the table today is the legislative proposals that were approved by the CBA at its September meeting regarding enhancing the requirements for CPA licensure and modernizing mobility. Both our initiatives in the CBA's sure CPA project. There's been so much talk about this from a variety of sources, both at the state and national level. 00;00;51;06 - 00;01;12;13 Speaker 1 The Dominic and Denise wanted to get together to make sure everyone in California consumers, licensees and applicants understands exactly the changes that are going to be made and how they may affect you and the accounting profession as a whole. So we'll talk about how we got to this point and where things go from here. But to get everyone caught up first where we are, let's dig into the proposals themselves. 00;01;12;13 - 00;01;19;12 Speaker 1 So starting with the licensure changes, Dominic, can you please explain that legislative proposal that the CDA approved in September? 00;01;19;17 - 00;01;56;00 Speaker 2 Yes. Thank you. David. So the board has been, as you indicated, through a chair CPA project, looking to kind of simplify the process, create more clarity to the licensure framework. And while that originally started with a the foundation of 150 semester units and not really looking to deviate off of that as the national dialog started to, kind of percolate a bit more and other groups were starting to look at a nontraditional 150 semester unit pathway, the board set staff out to kind of see what options might be available. 00;01;56;03 - 00;02;21;16 Speaker 2 And so over several months, we heard from, various stakeholders, including Tasmania CPA and obviously Cal CPA, and listened to other state boards of accountancy and started to kind of piece together this idea of, okay, if we want to create a more flexible framework, what would that look like? Continuing to require the 150 as a standalone, or is there more opportunities for additional pathways? 00;02;21;18 - 00;02;51;02 Speaker 2 And so the board and staff kind of looked at it and took a step back and said, okay, let's think a little bit forward thinking as well. Is it always going to be 150 semester? Is always going to be 120 semester units. So the board's proposal really kind of does a couple of things. One, it emphasizes the unit requirement element and stops referencing 150 semester units and stops referencing even under the old pathway system, the 120 semester unit. 00;02;51;02 - 00;03;15;07 Speaker 2 It kind of takes that element out and really focuses on the degree and then the accounting concentration. So now there the board is proposing basically two pathways, one which would be a a master's, a specified master's degree, and then another, which would be a baccalaureate degree. And then with that, the board is also kind of needing to reassess his experience requirement. 00;03;15;09 - 00;03;47;08 Speaker 2 It's still going to use the foundation of general accounting experience, but it's taking that idea of, okay, we're going to set the bar at two years for those who are coming through the baccalaureate degree pathway, and then for the master's group, they can substitute a year and kind of go back to the traditional 150 and one kind of, general accounting experience idea, but it still leaves the board the ability to enhance the experience requirement, which is a topic that's kind of also being discussed nationally on enhancing experience. 00;03;47;14 - 00;04;04;06 Speaker 2 And so the language is permissive, and it'll allow the board to, consider enhancement when the time is right. And it's focused on job tasks and minimum competency. So it has some structure to it, but a lot of flexibility for the board to be able to be more dynamic going forward. 00;04;04;08 - 00;04;13;27 Speaker 1 Now, Cal CPA has been in support of this proposal all along the way. Denise, why do you believe it's important for a state like California to move forward with these proposed changes? 00;04;14;00 - 00;04;40;07 Speaker 3 I mean, the shortage we all know the shortage that's out there, right? And there's the shortage is really on the two end. So if you look at those retiring, you know, from an accounting perspective, 75% over the next 15 years of those accounting professionals will retire, right. So you have that one piece losing out. And then as they're coming in two, we know that from 2016 to 2022, there were 13%, fewer graduates. 00;04;40;07 - 00;05;02;02 Speaker 3 And then also we know on the CPAs that are taking the exam, there were 37% less. Right. So we have a shortage. And that impacts, as we've talked about the marketplace, right. We need that professional skepticism in the marketplace. And we need to make sure the public is protected. And if we don't have enough CPAs from a governance standpoint, from the public standpoint, we have, you know, risk out there. 00;05;02;05 - 00;05;28;13 Speaker 3 So we know that's important. I would say also from the modernization standpoint, we need to make sure we're listening to the marketplace, the next generation and what do they want. And then also the public protection piece. But the modernizing the licensure, modernizing, the mobility piece. That's key. And you've all done a great job just really listening. You know, the town halls that you've had, the outreach is really important. 00;05;28;13 - 00;05;51;10 Speaker 3 So we have to make sure we're doing listening as well. And I would say to were the largest state, the largest CPA society, 40,000 plus members, you have 105,000 CPAs here. We need to make sure that, we're out there and we're leading the way, and at the same time, understanding the ecosystem that we're part of. Right. So that balance and we've been talking about that for the last year. 00;05;51;10 - 00;06;06;07 Speaker 3 How do we balance both of those and make sure we're walking, you know, the right line. And you've done a great job. Dominick and your whole team and the board of doing that. So, you know, we're there to lock arms and to make sure we keep moving forward and be part of that ecosystem. 00;06;06;11 - 00;06;23;00 Speaker 1 Yeah, that's great. Thank you. Now I want to note something that you just alluded to about how so many of the changes are specifically written into the proposals, but like you mentioned, the door is kind of left open to to future modifications, if you will. Do you want to maybe elaborate on that a little bit? Yeah. 00;06;23;00 - 00;06;47;01 Speaker 2 Happy to I think part of the strategy as well with the licensure framework, is to create that kind of to be more responsive, going forward, you know, having to go back to the legislature every time to make changes is not the most conducive way to continue to make sure that we're being responsive. The legislature definitely needs to have it's a strong hand in what that box should look like. 00;06;47;09 - 00;07;09;26 Speaker 2 But how how big the box can be and what can fit into it. As long as they put appropriate guardrails that ensure consumer protection and ensure they understand how the board is going to operate and have some clear guidelines and guidance to the board, that's that's a good structure. And so what we tried to do here was create the foundation under the three E's, continue to lean into the exam because it's a rigorous exam. 00;07;09;26 - 00;07;37;12 Speaker 2 It is the one key that everybody has across the state. That one piece needs to stay exactly as it is passed that CPA exam, the licensure piece states, should be able to be more responsive to their constituents and their public protection needs. And in California, we're trying to meet that shift with what we're talking about here. And then the experience piece is experience can be more dynamic over time as, as as the needs of CPAs change. 00;07;37;15 - 00;07;59;00 Speaker 2 We need to have the experience align appropriately. General accounting is a good foundation, but if enhancements can be made that continue to, help the board support its mission towards minimum competency and consumer protection, that box should be made big enough so the board can be making those changes through the rulemaking process, work with stakeholders, work with the firms, and be more dynamic. 00;07;59;00 - 00;08;11;13 Speaker 2 And so we're trying to create, I guess, the analogy and I keep saying it here is this box is right now it feels like we're a very small box. Can we get a little bit bigger and make sure that we can be more forward thinking in the future? 00;08;11;19 - 00;08;34;07 Speaker 1 Yeah, have that flexibility. That's good. So the CBA has been talking about this sure CPA project for getting close to two years now. Its original focus was to make the CPA licensure requirements is clear and understandable for students. And applicants as possible. The project has definitely grown this year in 2020 for now, incorporating many other elements such as the new pathway to licensure that you brought up earlier. 00;08;34;10 - 00;08;45;23 Speaker 1 An intriguing component of this, though, is how the bachelor's degree in accounting will be deemed to have satisfied all of the educational requirements for licensure. So why is that such a benefit to potential applicants? 00;08;45;26 - 00;09;12;17 Speaker 2 Yeah, we call it we've used the terminology and I know we worked with Jason Fox at Cal, CPA and NIS and thinking about this process and this idea of an expressway, and it's not simply just to make the process easier, but it's more from my perspective to make it more, understandable. Like I graduated with a bachelor's of science in accounting from University of Southern California. 00;09;12;19 - 00;09;32;16 Speaker 2 Does that meet the requirements today? And the answer is more likely than not. Yes, but we don't know unless we go through line by line by line of your transcript to make that determination and count up your units and making sure you have a 150 semester units. And there's a degree of uncertainty there, you know, did the course title change, is it not longer offered in the accounting department? 00;09;32;16 - 00;10;05;20 Speaker 2 But it might be in the business department, but it's still accounting related. Or is the staff going to find that. And our staff is great. They do a wonderful job at trying to make sure that, but there's so much uncertainty with that. So the idea was when we started talking, we're not going to be like the nursing program or or the medical board where we're approving those programs per se, but that we are kind of trying to create that same degree of certainty that if I graduate with that degree, I know when I stepped into that degree that I'm going to be able to qualify to sit for the exam and to get to licensure. 00;10;05;22 - 00;10;32;00 Speaker 2 Whereas today, more likely than not, they know that. But it's not 100% positive. And that creates this anxiety as anybody who's gone to our transcript review or in an accounting program, they sit across from our staff and review that. And there's a level of relief that comes. They should feel that relief when they stepped into the program to begin with, and not having to wait for us to come to your campus to say, yes, you're on the right track. 00;10;32;02 - 00;10;32;24 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00;10;32;27 - 00;10;48;13 Speaker 3 I said, on the other side of that when I was waiting two years ago, I won't say how many years ago. And there is anxiety there because you wonder, how short am I? I just want to sit for the exam. I just want to get it done. And so, I want to be licensed. So, Yeah, that's that's for sure. 00;10;48;13 - 00;10;51;13 Speaker 3 There. So I appreciate that you're doing this. 00;10;51;15 - 00;11;13;22 Speaker 1 Yeah. That's going to be a big change. And the less anxiety we can have for the students either. So that'll be great. So sure CPA really started evolving this spring. The CBA invited Naspa AICPA and Cal CPA to speak at the May meeting. Staff also presented the draft licensure framework for the first time there, the bachelor's degree, plus the two years of general accounting experience. 00;11;13;24 - 00;11;30;06 Speaker 1 Cal CPA was represented at the meeting by Meredith Johnson, last year's chair, and she talked about CPA, the CPA Pipeline Action Group that your organization formed in the last year or so. So how does the Cbas work on these legislative proposals fit in with the goals of CPA? 00;11;30;09 - 00;12;02;13 Speaker 3 So CPA Meredith was the chair. Right. And so we created that. It's a California pipeline advisory group. Had to think about that about acronyms out there. So it was a group of 12 firms, those from academia. I'm also a young professional. And of course, the CPA sits on there as advisors as well. But just to as proposals came down the pipeline, so to speak, from the national perspective, as you started to develop proposals, to really look at that and be mindful and intentional and have conversations from diverse perspectives. 00;12;02;17 - 00;12;22;12 Speaker 3 So we could say we really have vetted this. We understand where everything's going and to make sure we made, like I said, intentional decisions. So it was really important to have that group formed. And it's been great. It's been so helpful to us as we move forward, and they've been really great at just coming together whenever we need them to say, there's something coming, we need you. 00;12;22;12 - 00;12;31;19 Speaker 3 So, that's been critical as we move forward to make sure we have all the voices heard and to make sure we're making intentional decisions. Did you want me to speak a little bit about. 00;12;31;25 - 00;12;35;29 Speaker 1 Do you want to continue about Cal CPA and your approach to the pipeline? And. 00;12;36;02 - 00;12;56;03 Speaker 3 Sure. Yeah, there's a lot there. So I won't take we don't want to sit here forever, but we look at it from a couple different perspectives, and it's kind of multifaceted from a program perspective and from a partnership lens. So we can't do everything alone. So we know we have to partner and we're looking at it based on, you know, the time and cost of education. 00;12;56;03 - 00;13;17;17 Speaker 3 That's the whole modernizing the licensure, conversations we've been having, but also to look at it from access to the underrepresented communities. So one program that we're really proud of and we're building out more this year is our community college, the CPA program. And when I look at a statistic that's out there, it just reminds me of how important this program is. 00;13;17;20 - 00;13;44;28 Speaker 3 About 21 to 21% of the individuals that go to UC schools graduate from community college, 50 maybe it's 31%, and then 59% of those that go to see you universities graduate from a community college. So it's so important to make sure that we're in the community colleges and we help those students transition. That's the program from the community college to a four year program, because there's a lot of anxiety there as well. 00;13;44;28 - 00;14;04;29 Speaker 3 And to make sure we hold their hand through it, we also partner with Alpha, we partner with ascend, we partner with NABA, we partner with the Alliance for Black Women Accountants to bring in those individuals and to help them with scholarships. We give out over $300,000 in scholarships to really be there for them as they move forward. 00;14;05;01 - 00;14;29;12 Speaker 3 We also have, mentorship programs. We've launched that through our commission of belonging. We have, career possibilities, video out there. So there's a lot of different, touch points and programs that we're working on 33 to be specific, to really help that pipeline because it's more and you've said this, Dominique, many times, it's more than just the time and cost of the education. 00;14;29;12 - 00;14;42;16 Speaker 3 There's so many other levels that we need and, and levers that we need to pull in order to make the pipeline, much more attractive and to help students with the exam get through that. And you've you've done a lot to from your perspective. 00;14;42;22 - 00;15;06;23 Speaker 2 Yeah. And I think that's the key here is the pipeline is bigger than just one piece, as the National Pipeline Advisory Group from the ACP side, which I know you are a part of, they identified six key kind of tenants that make that up, and cost and time of education is kind of the crossroads where the profession and the regulator is kind of more come together, where there's that level of overlap. 00;15;06;23 - 00;15;31;07 Speaker 2 And that's where these initiatives and these ideas kind of, have an ability to have that cross purpose and affect the pipeline, enhance consumer protection, make sure that we're being more thoughtful and evergreen in the approaches we take. But the pipeline as a whole isn't going to be fixed by this. There's one or even two things. It'll be many things that the profession and to some extent regulators will undertake. 00;15;31;07 - 00;15;35;27 Speaker 2 But where we can this is these are the opportunities to kind of address those. 00;15;35;29 - 00;15;38;20 Speaker 3 There's no silver bullet. No, no we'd love that. 00;15;38;21 - 00;15;40;00 Speaker 2 Yeah that'd be great. Yeah. 00;15;40;03 - 00;15;41;28 Speaker 3 Many things we can work on together. 00;15;42;00 - 00;15;59;11 Speaker 1 Exactly. So when the CBA heard from all of these organizations at the May meeting, it was then that it directed staff to start gathering feedback on that licensure framework from a variety of different sources. And there was a lot that went into that this summer. Can you share some of the work that staff did? 00;15;59;15 - 00;16;20;11 Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, absolutely. So I mean, first and foremost, we want to thank our CPA with their efforts, one, to help us coordinate a handful of the, town halls with the faculty and with the, students and new licensees to get just to sit down with a small group of people and have an interaction. There's you can do and we did the survey and I'll talk about that in a minute. 00;16;20;11 - 00;16;39;27 Speaker 2 You can do the survey. And that collects a lot of data quickly, but it's not as responsive of being able to sit across from somebody and ask follow up questions or kind of delve deep into their personal kind of experiences and really kind of understand, like the rubber meets the road kind of mentality. And so having an opportunity to speak with some of the young, professionals was great. 00;16;39;27 - 00;16;55;09 Speaker 2 And I know they learned a lot because that's the group who's kind of like trying to navigate it today and the pitfalls that kind of exist for them. So that was wonderful speaking with the faculty and kind of getting their perspective. And that's a very unique set of circumstances. When you sit around with a bunch of different faculty. 00;16;55;11 - 00;17;15;00 Speaker 2 So we had those. We had some other town halls where we met with, you know, because our proposals will have an impact, not just here in California, because mobility is is built around trust. And we have it built around substantial equivalency today. And there's a lot of questions of whether or not that's the appropriate model going forward. And it may be not may not be the only model. 00;17;15;02 - 00;17;40;13 Speaker 2 It may still be a viable model, but not the only model. And so you have to kind of understand if I'm making changes here in California, what does that mean for the CPAs going somewhere else. So inbound and outbound mobility is a key tenet to anything that the California does. And I know it's an important component for Cal CPA because they are looking both to the consumers but to their professionals who are here and their professionals need to leave to do work at another state. 00;17;40;13 - 00;17;57;24 Speaker 2 So having those conversations with those executive directors to kind of say, hey, we're looking at mobility. What are your thoughts about this? How important is mobility to you? What happens if a state made a change? Something like what California is doing or what Minnesota kind of initiated a few years ago? Would you still figure out how to make that work? 00;17;57;24 - 00;18;15;29 Speaker 2 And the resounding information we heard was as long as there wasn't something that prohibited them from doing it, they would try to they would do their best. Their board would want to maintain mobility and figure out how to make that work. So getting through those processes and having those town halls was invaluable to just have a one on one connection. 00;18;15;29 - 00;18;37;06 Speaker 2 I think we spoke with about almost half of the executive directors throughout the country, which honestly is a really good turnout. Given the fact that many Eds do multiple boards or multiple, professions. So getting an opportunity to chat with them and then making time was, was hugely valuable. And then we did the survey and it was probably the most successful survey I think the board has ever done. 00;18;37;06 - 00;18;44;01 Speaker 2 And on a shortest amount of time, I think we've ever done a survey. I think we ended up with near on 8000. 00;18;44;06 - 00;18;45;04 Speaker 1 8000. Yeah. 00;18;45;09 - 00;18;49;06 Speaker 3 Individuals responded. You did that. It's great. 00;18;49;08 - 00;19;11;14 Speaker 2 The topic I think more than anything else, the topic drives. Yeah. And, we were using social media. You amplified the message as well. Your organization did a wonderful job in amplifying that message and getting people like, the day the survey went out, I was in, and Diane's office, the assistant executive officer and David was was about 2000. 00;19;11;17 - 00;19;13;09 Speaker 2 It's been out for 20 minutes, like. 00;19;13;11 - 00;19;13;19 Speaker 1 Three. 00;19;13;19 - 00;19;31;26 Speaker 2 Thousand, 3000 a half hour late, like it was just like one after another, after another after another. And then we were on a call later that day, I believe, or the following day, and it was, hey, I've heard about the survey. Can you shoot that to me or shoot this to, this person at this firm? People were already hearing about it, word of mouth within, within minutes. 00;19;31;26 - 00;19;56;00 Speaker 2 But that survey had a lot of incredible information. And if if nothing we learned from it was mobility is key, but the pipeline is just as important. So I think to some extent the survey just kind of amplified this. Like change needs to happen, mobility needs to be preserved. Figure out how to make it work. And I think the board in California is really working to do that. 00;19;56;00 - 00;20;14;25 Speaker 2 And working with Cal CPA to kind of move that needle not just here and regionally, but nationally as well, because other states are picking up that momentum as well and just are starting to say the two are important and they need to have changes made. But we can't be scared to make changes along the way. 00;20;14;27 - 00;20;33;12 Speaker 1 So let's dig into that second legislative proposal then, regarding mobility, you know, the impact of making changes, potential licensor changes was on the minds of many in the town halls served on many of your membership at Cal CPA. So first of all, give us some of the details on what the proposal entails. 00;20;33;18 - 00;20;54;21 Speaker 2 Absolutely. So you hit upon it. Mobility is integral. Like it's it's kind of that, almost has now become a cornerstone of, of the accounting profession because clients and professionals need to be able to serve their clients across state lines. Consumers need those services, sometimes from CPAs from another state. So it connects us multi-state but multinational as well. 00;20;54;21 - 00;21;23;27 Speaker 2 So mobility is a is a is a cornerstone of our profession now. And California's had a mobility program of some sort dating back to 2006. But our current mobility program since around 2013 was the no notice, no fee, kind of more, no escape mobility. And it's been built primarily on three kind of ideas on how somebody could practice here, through substantial equivalence states as being one model, substantial equivalency as an individual. 00;21;23;27 - 00;21;43;09 Speaker 2 If your state wasn't on that list, but every state's on there. So that was really never used. And then this idea of basically a form of automatic mobility of this, if you practice in another state and had a valid license for for of the past ten years, you're, you're it doesn't matter what your state is, it doesn't matter how you get licensed, your you're fine. 00;21;43;12 - 00;22;09;18 Speaker 2 And so it was fairly similar to automatic mobility. So the board and working with Cal CPA and discussing it with their team, we started to look at, well, can we lean into that a bit more. And so this proposal really kind of strips away that substantial equivalency piece that has been the foundation for a long time and really moved into a more driver's license model, which is even how it was kind of described early on. 00;22;09;20 - 00;22;39;00 Speaker 2 But really is leaning into that, whereas a CPA, CPA, and it's more of an automatic mobility, but with important consumer safeguards that are already in place now continues to allow the board to take, appropriate consumer protection action. If a state kind of does something, let's just say that proverbial goes off the rails is the term that we hear a lot, that if something like that were to happen, the board could be responsive and say, okay, that state licenses from that state, you can't come under no notice, no fee. 00;22;39;01 - 00;23;00;09 Speaker 2 You're going to have to notify us before you come in for the consumer protection piece. But it was really just this idea of decoupling the licensure requirements and substantial equivalency that built this mobility program, because those are at risk. Now, states are moving off. I mean, the reality is California is not the only one doing this idea of 120 into other states. 00;23;00;09 - 00;23;26;01 Speaker 2 You're moving down those models. And to minimize the disruption of mobility was an important component of it. And while I can't affect what goes outbound and the board has is sensitive to that, we can make sure that the inbound portion for the consumer protection and client access is preserved as best we can through a, a more automatic mobility approach, with those consumer safeguards. 00;23;26;03 - 00;23;30;25 Speaker 1 Denise, I'm curious what you're hearing from your membership about the modernization mobility here. 00;23;30;26 - 00;23;48;18 Speaker 3 I mean, a lot of the same, right? I mean, to make sure that we know that the mobility is a key regulatory concept. So, you know, that's top of mind. That's what we've heard from the firms. And especially after Covid, it's important. Right. Because people are going all over. They're living here for somewhere for three months. Maybe they're living for a year. 00;23;48;24 - 00;24;09;10 Speaker 3 So there's definitely people moving across state lines more than ever, I would say now. And the firms too, they the work is done across state lines. If they can't find someone here, they'll find someone in Texas or or even know Minnesota. So that's so important. And we've heard that loud and clear. And decoupling it is, is just the way to go. 00;24;09;10 - 00;24;28;18 Speaker 3 And I think overall your approach has been a great approach because you're thoughtful. You have the public protection piece, right, with the guardrails on the back end, and then just there's an open door there, right, for individuals to come in. And I mean, the 4 in 10, like you said, has been there. So, and it's been a piece of that. 00;24;28;18 - 00;24;49;12 Speaker 2 And I think to that point that the foundation of mobility, what mobility does and how it functions and works is, is sound. And it's in California, I can speak primarily to California and almost exclusively of California. It's built on a strong foundation of consumer protection. There's been this component about substantial currency built into it, but that's not the cornerstone of what mobility of why it works. 00;24;49;12 - 00;25;14;03 Speaker 2 It works because state regulates licensees who cross border are under our jurisdiction and subject themselves to this jurisdiction. Consumers can file complaints. The structure is there for mobility to be successful. And now it's just kind of saying, okay, well, that prior foundation may not was a good foundation for a long time, but it's probably not the, the most modern way to kind of go about doing it in the future. 00;25;14;09 - 00;25;36;23 Speaker 2 So let's decouple, the substantial equivalency, the licensure still needs to be a component, but it doesn't need to be kind of the cornerstone key component to everything that makes up mobility, so that if a state is responsive in their jurisdiction, if it really doesn't compromise consumer protection, should that send this ripple effect through everything mobility has built up over the time? 00;25;36;23 - 00;25;51;20 Speaker 2 Because that's the we always hear this breaking mobility, breaking mobility. At this point, mobility is kind of faltering. The question is how can we minimize the disruption and and help guide a path towards a more modern approach? Going forward? I think four states already have it. 00;25;51;24 - 00;25;58;20 Speaker 3 I was just going to say for do so Nevada, Nebraska, North Carolina and Alabama. Yeah. All right. So that's out there. 00;25;58;20 - 00;26;11;12 Speaker 2 Yeah. This isn't new. I mean where we might have a different structure to ours because it has more guardrails. But it it's the appetite of that state for what those guardrails should be. And but they're already out there. 00;26;11;16 - 00;26;14;05 Speaker 3 They are and they're different to each of those states are different. 00;26;14;11 - 00;26;14;22 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00;26;14;22 - 00;26;19;15 Speaker 3 So all right we've spent a long it's we're passionate about it with passion. 00;26;19;17 - 00;26;31;23 Speaker 1 And that's why we're here. We're glad you're telling us all about it. So the proposals have been approved. But there's still a lot of work to be done before the changes can take effect. So, Dominic, can you walk us through what what are the next steps? Where do we go from here? Yeah. 00;26;31;24 - 00;26;56;15 Speaker 2 So, there are legislative proposals. So we have to go through the legislative process. The California Board of Accountancy team is starting to meet with legislators and legislative staff to try to kind of start talking about proposals, answer questions, give history and feedback, to try to explain how we got there. And I think a lot of the work that we've done and then the support from Cal CPA helps lay a really strong foundation of like, we didn't just do this yesterday. 00;26;56;17 - 00;27;20;05 Speaker 2 This wasn't done even two months ago. This has been basically two years with the last 6 to 8 months being the biggest part of it. But it's been a long process that we've been kind of evaluating licensure. And so we're going through the legislative process. We hope to have an author for the bill. For the next legislative year. 00;27;20;08 - 00;27;56;18 Speaker 2 And then anybody who's read the bill or read the proposed language will notice. There's the dates are blank, right? Right now, there aren't any dates. And that was intentional because we don't know what makes the most sense for this licensure framework. You know, January 1st, 2020 6th May not be the most, appropriate time because maybe by a delayed implementation of, six months or a year, it allows for other states to deal with their own kind of issues, to minimize further disruptions in mobility, or may provide schools opportunities to address any degree related issues that they have. 00;27;56;18 - 00;28;25;18 Speaker 2 It also just gives us time as a board and working with Cal CPA to kind of navigate the other side of the legislation is one piece, but then there's a whole rulemaking process to kind of get kind of the the nuts and bolts in place. So at this point, we're kind of just going through the legislative process. And I would expect in November, I know we've already spoken with Cal CPA a little bit, and we're going to have some more discussions on what are some of those ideas for dates, you know, for the licensure piece, what what are some of the alternatives and what are the pros and cons? 00;28;25;25 - 00;28;43;10 Speaker 2 What are your thoughts on them? What are you hearing from your firms or from your young professionals or licensed licensees? What makes the most sense for them? And then us looking at it from a pragmatic point of view, how do we implement it? How do we give enough time? How do we share the message so it doesn't just show up one day? 00;28;43;12 - 00;28;49;20 Speaker 2 And it just takes people by storm. We want to have a good plan in place and doing things like this help with that? 00;28;49;20 - 00;29;08;01 Speaker 3 Yes. I mean, the messaging, I can't hear it that enough because it's so important that we don't have more confusion out there in the marketplace because I, you know, you see on social all sorts of comments and it's like, oh, people don't really understand. And we want to make sure there's understanding. And like you said, Dominic, that's the reason we're doing this. 00;29;08;01 - 00;29;12;04 Speaker 3 And we'll do more. Yeah, because we have to have that understanding. It's it's a complex issue. 00;29;12;05 - 00;29;32;25 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, we'll eventually have to working with David, break these down. Like the one of the things that comes up a lot is well now I have to have an accounting degree because they hear that as part of the accounting concentration. But that's not the case. That's just one sliver of it and that's the expressway. But we're still keeping the units so people can come to a more traditional pathway. 00;29;32;25 - 00;29;49;28 Speaker 2 But that message gets lost sometimes because it's not amplified enough by by us or we're just not getting it across the right way. So we need to sit down and have those discussions to make sure that people understand. So there's not this misconception, like all of a sudden, well, now I have to find a school that gives an accounting degree. 00;29;50;02 - 00;29;51;10 Speaker 2 No, that's not going to be the case. 00;29;51;12 - 00;29;53;18 Speaker 3 Yeah, I could see that message. Yeah, right. 00;29;53;25 - 00;29;59;28 Speaker 1 I was actually going to ask you if there were some misconception out there that you've already come across from that you've been hearing. 00;29;59;28 - 00;30;22;18 Speaker 3 So I think a lot of people are thinking that automatic mobility doesn't have guardrails. I think that's one piece that's out there and that's not true. And on the licensure standpoint, I think to the competencies and the the general and how the how big the box is and how much time we're allowing to allow for the national perspectives to to come flow in and see how we kind of navigate some of that. 00;30;22;18 - 00;30;35;17 Speaker 3 So it's just and it's the loudest voice out there that's always right that people kind of navigate towards. And it's the simplest message. Yeah. So we're going to rely on you David. And then our social media and our communications team to. 00;30;35;22 - 00;30;37;19 Speaker 1 The world wants that five second soundbite. 00;30;37;20 - 00;30;38;29 Speaker 2 Yeah, 100%. 00;30;38;29 - 00;30;42;01 Speaker 1 Well we've been going here for 20 plus minutes and we're so good. But it's. 00;30;42;01 - 00;30;42;05 Speaker 3 Good. 00;30;42;12 - 00;30;45;24 Speaker 1 This is about we need to. Yeah, exactly. Stick with us and you will learn everything. 00;30;45;24 - 00;30;46;17 Speaker 3 Yes absolutely. 00;30;46;17 - 00;30;51;09 Speaker 1 So when the students ask me when is this going to kick in, the answer is still. 00;30;51;12 - 00;30;52;01 Speaker 2 To be determined. 00;30;52;01 - 00;30;52;12 Speaker 1 We'll see. 00;30;52;18 - 00;30;53;29 Speaker 2 We'll get we'll let you know. 00;30;54;02 - 00;31;19;16 Speaker 1 But more probably more information after the November meeting potentially. Yeah. So we'll get that. All right. So all of this is happening at the state level. Conversations of course are continuing to swirl at the national level. Naspa and AICPA recently released an exposure draft dealing with changes to the UAE. So, Denise, I imagine many, many of your Cal KBA members are curious how California's actions may or may not align with their proposals. 00;31;19;19 - 00;31;21;14 Speaker 1 What are your thoughts on that? 00;31;21;16 - 00;31;45;28 Speaker 3 Well, I mean, I'm encouraged by all the conversation because we've had, you know, numerous conversations with different stakeholders, and we've been very transparent from the beginning. And so, there's that piece very encouraged. There's also the element of, you know, it's not really mutually exclusive. What the CBA is doing in the national perspective. There's common tenants there and there's like you said, the big box. 00;31;45;28 - 00;32;09;14 Speaker 3 So that's there's elements that are similar. And I would say two from the perspective of, you know, we're going to continue to listen. We're going to continue to hear our voices. And when we develop our exposure drafts, we'll look at flexibility. We'll look at it being, you know, clear and concise what we're doing and making sure that the options are there for students so that they they can understand and where they're heading. 00;32;09;19 - 00;32;26;02 Speaker 3 And also that diverse pathways are integrated, you know, into the framework that's that's selected. So I'm I'm optimistic. I'm encouraged by all the conversations. And I am encouraged by the momentum that continues to be out there. And, just by the partnerships. Yeah, it's very encouraging. 00;32;26;05 - 00;32;27;24 Speaker 1 What about from the CBA perspective? 00;32;28;01 - 00;33;11;00 Speaker 2 So, yeah, we're looking to have a special or special as a specific term, interim, board meeting. November 4th. And I would encourage, our licensees and members for Cal CPA to tune in to that particular meeting at that. At that particular point, the board will be evaluating, how to and if it wants to respond to the, yeah, the exposure draft and how they compare to California's proposals and what, what the differences are and where, similarities may lie and how to kind of continue to affect change on a national level by using our voice and, and by that time, the board will have considered, you know, kind of where, where 00;33;11;00 - 00;33;40;16 Speaker 2 it wants to go a little bit and sharing a message. And hopefully it'll help individuals who are evaluating the exposure drafts, because those responses aren't due until I think one is due December 6th than the others. December 30th. Yeah, even after November 4th, there's still plenty of time for individuals to kind of evaluate how California Board of Accountancy looked at that, to see if that informs how they want to maybe consider responding back to the to the UAE, because this is your opportunity to have a voice and this is your opportunity to share information. 00;33;40;18 - 00;34;00;09 Speaker 2 And I think members both for Cassiopeia and the licensees of the board should be encouraged to take a look at this, because this is going to shape the entry into the profession and then how the mobility piece works for those in the profession going forward. So if you have a question or a concern or a thought, good, bad or indifferent, it's a it's an opportunity to share. 00;34;00;09 - 00;34;02;08 Speaker 2 And so take that opportunity. 00;34;02;10 - 00;34;08;20 Speaker 3 Right. I want to punctuate that. Yes. You need your voice to be heard. So please, you know, communicate with us. 00;34;08;22 - 00;34;26;20 Speaker 1 Great. Well, I want to thank both of you for taking the time and sharing all of this great information with us today, and just for the desire for everyone in California and around the country to have clarity on this important topic and why California is taking these steps, since, like we said, there's so many moving parts and different organizations acting concurrently. 00;34;26;27 - 00;34;31;25 Speaker 1 So I just want to give each of you a moment just for, any final thoughts you may have. So, Dennis. 00;34;31;25 - 00;34;47;14 Speaker 3 I would say the one thing I have to say is thank you to Jason Fox, our VP of Advocacy and Public Affairs. Jason has been, you know, integral in all these conversations, and we couldn't do everything without him. So I want to say thank you first there. And I would just say, you know, we're at a tipping point. 00;34;47;14 - 00;35;05;18 Speaker 3 We really are. And I, I would encourage, you know, a healthy I always say healthy critics, but the healthy dialog out there listening, you know, recognizing we're part of an ecosystem. So we need to work together. We're stronger always together. And, just as Dominika said, let your voice be heard. We want to make sure the profession thrives. 00;35;05;18 - 00;35;13;06 Speaker 3 I love the profession, and so we want to make sure it continues to grow and be out there in public protection is is key in the marketplace. 00;35;13;09 - 00;35;30;21 Speaker 2 So and for my and I want to say thank you to Cal Ciba for obviously making time to come down and chat. And hopefully we're going to do more of these in the future. I had opportunity to do a town hall with, Denise and Kelsey Bell a while ago and, and share some of this dialog before it was really even put on paper for the board. 00;35;30;28 - 00;35;52;09 Speaker 2 But it was an opportunity. So this collaboration is great. And and again, as Denise has and I mentioned earlier, share your voice. I mean, we have public meetings. They're public for a reason. We want to hear from people and UAE wants to hear from, or the ACB and ASB want to hear on their proposals. You know, the good, the bad and the ugly. 00;35;52;09 - 00;36;04;23 Speaker 2 It we want to hear the same on our proposals because it helps shape the narrative going forward, because we don't want to have missed something or not considered something. So this is an opportunity to be heard, and I would encourage people to do so. 00;36;04;26 - 00;36;07;15 Speaker 3 And thank you again for the opportunity and the partnership. 00;36;07;17 - 00;36;27;06 Speaker 1 Very good. All right. So I encourage you, like Dominic mentioned, you can watch either the next meetings. There's the interim CBA meeting coming up on November 4th and then the next full CBA meeting is November 21st and 22nd. So a couple of meetings coming up in November. Those can always be watched on the website. CBA talks gov under live stream. 00;36;27;06 - 00;36;41;21 Speaker 1 So check it out. And of course I encourage you to follow us on social media because that's a great way to stay up to date on all of these proposals. And there's going to be a lot of moving pieces on this in the months to come. So I encourage you to follow us there. All right. Well, thank you for tuning in, viewing, listening. 00;36;41;21 - 00;36;45;16 Speaker 1 However you're doing it today on the accounting for California podcast. Until next time. 00;36;45;23 - 00;36;46;24 Speaker 3 Goodbye. Thank you. 00;36;46;26 - 00;36;47;11 Speaker 2 Thank you.